Don't Get "Robbed" Oklahoma
Red flags went up when calls to "Reform Oklahoma's Ballots" appeared on local radical extreme leftwing blogs like Okie Funk and Blue Oklahoma.
Reminders of other states where similar measures and tactics were employed immediately came to mind like Ohio's "Reform Ohio Now" or RON (as it was called back in 2005) following Vietnam protester John Kerry's (D) loss to President George Bush (R).
It's funny (not ha-ha funny, the other kind) that for 100 years during Democrat control of the Oklahoma congress there were no calls for Reforming Oklahoma's Ballot process, but since Republicans have started winning elections (and control).... suddenly Democrats apparently have no other choice but to ROB.
Oklahoma Democrats are scrambling to try and find a way to stop the Republican takeover of the state House and Senate, but conventional means (convincing voters) is not working.
So, if your football team can't score points, it's time to "reform" the scoreboard is the thinking and Reforming Oklahoma's Ballot (ROB) is the plan of attack. Unable to score points with voters, Democrats are maneuvering to revamp the scoring system and assure success by "ROB", by hook or by crook.
One clue to their intentions is the fact that few if any details are provided for just HOW they would ROB and reform the voting process (if given the chance).
Do you really want illegal aliens voting in Oklahoma's elections?
Do you really want dead people "voting" in our elections?
How about convicted criminals?
Do you really want people voting multiple times from multiple locations in Oklahoma?
These are ALL things that Democrats and groups like ACORN have been caught doing and promoting during the past 2 elections, and now it appears Democrats plan to ROB and do the same things here in the Sooner state.
So when you hear the Democrats and liberals proclaiming that they plan to ROB and reform the voting process in Oklahoma, ...take them at their word.
They already believe the 2000 and 2004 elections were stolen from them, so robbing voters is justified in their view.
Oklahoma, don't get "Robbed" and don't be fooled.
Say NO to the ROBbers.
Say NO to Democrats.
Keep Oklahoma's election process credible, it worked fine for Democrats for the first 100 years.
UPDATE: 9/29/07- A supporter of OBAR (Oklahoma Ballat Access Reform) or ROB as I have referred to it above took issue (in my comments and at his blog) with my unwillingness to simply support "Ballot Reform" without FIRST knowing in FULL exactly what they plan to reform and how they plan to reform it. (Silly me).
He goes to great pain to discredit my wondering if this might somehow help Democrats...(more below)
OBAR tout's (more choices) adding any and all candidates from any and all political parties to the ballot as the reason to supporting Reforming Oklahoma's Ballots. Who doesn't like MORE choices? More is always better, right?
In other states where this is done there is a thing called "fusion"... and guess what, here is a story about HOW THIS TYPE BALLOT REFORM HELPS DEMOCRATS.
-red flags still waving and now a siren is going off.
-red
Labels: R.O.B., Reform Oklahoma's Ballot, voters
posted by RD at 11:16 AM
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8 Comments:
Do you believe the people of Oklahoma are too stupid to chose from more than 2 choices?
Just curious...
J. M. Branum
www.jmbzine.com
Hi JM, thanks for dropping by... well, thats what Ballot reform is being advertised and peddled as isn't it?
Please feel free to show me where thats actually what it is.
If other states are any example (and they are) ballot reform is liberal code for ... something entirely different, which i pointed out in my post quite clearly.
Tell me who is not running for office because there is not a party for them to run in.
Name one, and i will point out that his 25 supporters are not enough to get the job done anyway.
If he/she had enough supporters to win, they wouldn't need to change the ballots, they could change either party to what they want.
As I said, this is a matter or not being able to score points so the only thing left is to change the scoreboard.
If the system is so broken now that Democrats must change it, how come it was fine for the previous 100 years when they were in power?
This isn't about more choices, it's about tricking the voters into voting Democrat.
Here's a more detailed response to you...
http://jmbzine.com/wordpress/?p=717
I'll do ya' better than that, I'll post your "reply here and then answer you.
It is amazing to see Redstater argue why he opposes multi-party democracy in Oklahoma, being that his argument that the ballot access reform movement is a secret strategy by DEMOCRATS(!) to keep the Republicans from gaining power, and that Democrats are supposedly supporting now only because they have lost their majority.
That is interesting to me because Republicans in the past were the ones who have introduced bills to open the ballot access rules, and well-known democrats like Frosty Troy are opposed to ballot access reform.
So, given the weakness of Redstater’s hypothesis, I asked him one simple question on his blog comments, “Do you believe the people of Oklahoma are too stupid to chose from more than 2 choices? Just curious…”
His answer (which you can read by scrolling down to the comments section of this post, doesn’t in fact answer my question. He instead engages in some of the classical logical fallacies (also see Wikipedia’s list of logical fallacies) to attack the idea of letting voters decide for themselves between more than 2 “approved choices.”
I won’t fall into the trap of saying that all conservatives believe like he does (in fact, I know this is not the case because some of my conservative friends in law school were supporters of OBAR), but RedStater definitely does not represent his own chosen causes well." END COMMENT.
And I would respond to you with..
DO YOU think Oklahoma voters are stupid enough to support a ballot reform BEFORE they even know what that "reform" includes besides advertising gimicks and warm and fuzzy rhetoric?
Especially considering what tricks have been used in other states... as I pointed out for you in this post.
Apparently YOU think Oklahoma voters are stupid.
I don't, I think some red flags should be investigated FIRST.
call me crazy.
-red
Here's the actual text of State Question 738.
http://okvoterchoice.org/PetitionFinal.pdf
Now you know exactly what changes are sought, so please respond to my original question sir.
My response again is NO, I don't think Oklahoman's are stupid (at least not most of 'em)
But from what I can tell at this point is that I think it is FLUFF. Fluff that potentially could be used by one side (or the other) but fluff none the less. Fluff in the sense that it sounds nice and sounds all inclusive and everything but look beyond that and what are the results of where it has been implemented.
In states like Colorado where I lived (and voted) until 2003 there have been few examples of it actually electing anyone except from the primary two parties. (the exceptions would be Peoples Republics of Boulder and Aspen probably) A quick look at the Green party (Colorado LOVES the environment)
<2004 Green Party
only lists a county commissioner for Colorado in their claims of big victories.
Another problem is that Independent (3rd party) candidates are already allowed on Oklahoma's ballots... and experience has taught us that some of those are merely Democrats like (Joe Lieberman of CT) that disagree with the party on an issue or two...and become Independent. (with all due respect for Senator Lieberman whom I happen to admire for getting out) or other old school Democrats without a party.
Lastly and probably most important, as soon as this "BALLOT REFORM" cry came out and you had Okie Funk and Blue Oklahoma leading your parade, the entire effort came into serious question for me (and should have for any rational thinking Okie).
Neither has any credibility whatsoever with any objective observer.
(not that I'm saying I do) So, when they are leading the charge, naturally one with any perspective at all would question what might REALLY be going on here.
If the they and Daily Kos suddenly supported a movement to reduce or limit abortions or support the war... the same RED FLAGS would go up (with good reason)
So in my opinion,
The more distance you can put between any credible effort to improve the voting system (or anything else) and leftwing bloggers calling for the total destruction and reconstruction of the American government and political system the better chance you have of not facing "RED FLAGS".
But thats just my opinion, so my answer is NO Oklahoman's are NOT stupid... at least not most of 'em.
...YET. But they might like fluff, we'll see.
-red
BTw- making statements like
"It is frustrating though. I can only do so much. I can’t tell soldiers to break the law (even if it more moral to break the law than to do kill) and I can only do so much to help these soldiers navigate an institution that seems so bent on doing evil. — I should add that while the institution of the Army is about death and killing and evil (I’m sorry but that is how I see it), ..."
Doesn't give YOU much credibility with me either.
So, now we've got the most insane bloggers in the state along with a lawyer who makes a living off of enticing troops to attack their own military both on record as being FOR the Ballot reform idea...
Now I'm convinced, you got me.
lol
-red
And finally, if you go to his blog jmbzine and read the post... you know there is a problem when he misspells the most important word in the title of the post.
Calling it my "week" argument... maybe he meant week as in often?
This is the kind of law students they turn out over there?
wow.
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