Tuesday, August 04, 2009

Killing Gays In Tel Aviv vs Burning Christian Homes In Pakistan

The left is running with a story out of Tel Aviv Israel where an unidentified man dressed all in black entered a gay club and machine gunned 15 and killed 2 and are using this as an example of conservative or Christian hatred to be compared with and to offset the burning of Christian homes in Pakistan recently by Islamic extremists. According to the left, this evens things out and shows how Christians are just as bad as Islamic extremists if not worse. Islamic extremists burned Christian homes and apparently (according to the reasoning of the left) some rightwing Christian killed the gays in Tel Aviv.

Oklahoma Lefty-
"Liberals should be outraged by the attacks on Christians by Muslims and conservatives should be outraged by the attacks on homosexuals by Christians"
Classically Liberal Blog
"Conservatives love to preach: "Ideas have consequences." And they are right. Ideas do have consequences. When thousands of fundamentalist preachers around the world get up in their pulpits and preach that God hates gays and that he demands "that their blood shall be upon their head," then someone is going to put "God's word" into action. When millions of conservatives campaign for laws that explicitly say that gay people do not deserve the same legal rights as other people, the first step toward dehumanization has taken place. While religiously-motivated hatred is pervasive, we know, with complete certainty, that people will act on that hatred."

One small problem however.

Israel is tolerant of gays and neither Christians nor conservatives go around machine- gunning gays either.... but someone who lives very near Israel does do so. I know the left never wants to blame anyone else for anything they can blame on Christians but... there is zero evidence that a Christian or even an Israeli committed this crime. However there is evidence of who would and probably did.

Gays in Palestine are sneaking across INTO Israel because they are in fact much safer there... safe enough to risk being caught sneaking across the border illegally. Being in Israel among Christians and Jews was the safest place to be.

So in spite of what local authorities are spinning, it turns out that in fact it was more than likely a Palestinian wearing black that murdered those teenagers in Tel Aviv and NOT some Republican. What religion is palestine predominately?
Ohhh yes, it is the same religion as those who burned down the Christian's homes.

Oklahoma Lefty (dave) is right about one thing though.... "These stories should be uniting us instead of dividing us."
Yes, uniting us against our (Christians, Jews, Hindu and non believers alike) common enemy... radical Islam.

Now you know the rest of the story.


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4:20 AM  
Blogger Dave said...

A few things –
1. I don’t speak for the left, so don’t claim that I do.

2. I never said, nor implied that the intolerance and hatred that is preached in Christian churches is on the same level as that preached and practiced by radical Islam. That you read into my words (or you are trying to put words into my mouth, but I suspect it is the former).

3. The part from my post that you quoted about outrage; I take it that you disagree. This seems to be reinforced by your closing statements. Why? Why are the lives of those Christians more important than the lives of those homosexuals? Or am I misinterpreting what you're sating here?

4. You seem to think that I am not outraged by the atrocities done by those following radical Islam. I suspect that you hold this opinion because I have criticized others for preaching hate and intolerance. This is an inaccurate opinion/conclusion.

5. You also seem to be under the impression that those in radical Islam are the only groups that preach hatred and intolerance. Unfortunately that is far from accurate. I’m sure that you will respond with a list of atrocities perpetrated by elements of radical Islam, all of which are horrific and should not be tolerated, but that doesn’t mean that others hands aren’t dirty as well.

9:07 AM  
Blogger Red S Tater said...

dave... the example you used in your post was based on the assumption that the killings in Tel Aviv were rightwing conservative Christian based as the quotes and article you linked to pointed out.

The reality is that it is far more likely that the killer was Islamic is fact... Islam is the least tolerant of homosexuality of all religions and as we know Palestinians share that intolerance as evidenced by gays sneaking INTO Israel (not out of) for safety. There is no evidence of gays being mass murdered by Christians or Jews as some part of a grand plan. Not so with Islam however.

If you can't even admit that the comparison you made is a farce based on the erroneous example you gave then that is not my fault.

11:37 AM  
Blogger Red S Tater said...

krulayar... dude, seriously... I saw a cloud that looked exactly like a bunny rabbit. It was freaky, I think it might mean the return of the great white rabbit.

What say you?

11:42 AM  
Blogger Dave said...

And yet again you haven’t responded to anything that I actually said. Oh I also noticed that the quote that you used from my blog was incomplete and thus changed the meaning of the sentence. Nice.

At this point you think I am wrong and I think you have missed the point. The more we continue this, the more likely we are to just piss each other off. We should probably just agree to disagree before we start acting like stupid 12 year-olds again.

And what in the Sam Hill was that comment by krulayar all about? Good lord.

11:49 AM  
Blogger Red S Tater said...

I'm trying to stick to the subject we started with dave. You put up a post comparing the killings in Israel to the burning of homes and murder of Christians by Islamic radicals in Pakistan.

I pointed out that there is zero evidence that the killings in Israel were by either a conservative or a Christian or a Jew... but a good deal of evidence to support the idea that it was basically THE SAME RELIGION based Jihad that murdered gays in Israel and Christians in Pakistan.

Your argument that the hate on both sides is equal or that Christians hate as much as Muslims based on that post simply doesn't wash since none of those hate killings were done by CHRISTIANS.

Why is that so hard for you to understand?

11:54 AM  
Blogger Dave said...

I’m just going to repeat what I said in another comment --
“I’m making a reason statement of fact that segments of all religions preach hate and all you can do is basically say “well it’s not as bad as those guys.” Do you not think it is wrong to gun people down because they are gay? Do you not think it is wrong to protest at the funeral of a dead solider? Do you not think it is wrong to suppress women in the name of God? THEY ARE ALL WRONG! That’s the whole ever loving point that I have been trying to make.”

I never stated that any of these atrocities were on the same level. You tried to read that into my words (or tried to twist my words and edit my quotes to make it seem that way). All of these atrocities should be condemned. All preachers of hate, be them Jihadists, gay bashers, or Jeremiah Wright, should be condemned. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

12:07 PM  
Blogger Red S Tater said...

I said both the examples you gave in your post were of Islamic violence and none were of Christian violence.

So how can you draw from this that BOTH sides are wrong?

2:26 PM  
Blogger Dave said...

*sigh* No matter how many different ways I explain it Red, you still won’t accept my reasoning as legitimate so I’m not going to bother.

Like I said before, we will agree to disagree at this point because I just don't have the energy to bang my head against the wall with you today.

I'm sure you will somehow turn this into me giving up and you claiming victory. If that makes you feel better then go for it. I'm just tired of arguing, on this topic at least...I'm sure we'll get into on something else at some point today. :-P

10:12 AM  
Blogger Red S Tater said...

*sigh*... See I TOLD you that you'd never get it, we could have left it at that, but noooooooo you had to go and prove me right.

Moving on, ...how about those Rockies think they have a shot at the wildcard?

10:21 AM  
Blogger Dave said...

I’m a St. Louis fan.

10:26 AM  
Blogger Dave said...

You think that I don't get it and I think that you don't get it. Maybe we're both right.

10:27 AM  
Blogger Red S Tater said...

Ahhh full circle eh? lol, So we are back to your theory that there is no right or wrong, only both...at the same time, all the time. So therefore nobody has the right to believe they are right and nobody has the right to criticize others for screwing up the country and turning it into a socialist state or criticize Muslims for waging a Jihad (holy war) on the rest of civilization.... because we might be wrong too.

Sorry, but I understand you perfectly well... I just believe you are dead wrong.

Card's are okay, I went to a couple of games at Busch stadium... I think they've built a new one since then though...?

10:58 AM  
Blogger Dave said...

You are free to think whatever you want, but it is possible that we both have valid points. You will never concede this though.

Oh...I was also making a bit of a joke with that last statement. It appears that your humor isn't the only one that is misunderstood from time to time though. Now you know how I feel. :-P

11:11 AM  
Blogger Red S Tater said...

I knew you were going for the tongue in cheek sarcasm there... that's why I went with baseball.

I didn't figure you for a Colorado Rockies fan.

Now you're changing it to "both sides always have valid points" from right or wrong.

You (or I) can make valid points and still be as wrong as a rock... or make irrelevant points but still be as right as rain.

I like your sliding scale though, very liberal.

2:17 PM  
Blogger Dave said...

Sliding scale? Don’t know right from wrong? I’m glad you think so highly of me Red. Just because I have the ability to see things from multiple points of view does not mean that I don’t know the difference between what is right and wrong and frankly it is insulting as hell that you keep throwing that nonsense around.

11:02 AM  
Blogger Red S Tater said...

I didn't say you don't know right from wrong... I believe you preach a philosophy which resides in that gray area in between where everyone is wrong and yet everyone is right.... but mostly those on the left are right and those on the right are wrong.

With regard to the subject at hand...
In the case of using the killings of gays in Tel Aviv as an example of rightwing Christian hate and intolerance... there is no evidence to support the claim that Christians or Jews were involved, in fact gay's are sneaking INTO Israel for protection from Muslims in Palestine... not running away, so that claim is most definitely wrong.

In the case of the Christians in Pakistan who were murdered and had their homes burned to the ground as an another example of Islamic intolerance and hate... coming to that conclusion would be right.

11:28 AM  
Blogger Dave said...

“I didn't say you don't know right from wrong...”

That doesn’t really jive with your previous statements, but I’ll take you at your word.

As far as the rest, in my post I referred to Christians and Muslims in the case of the murder of homosexuals. In fact, I didn’t lay blame on anyone specifically for that incident because it was unclear. I do agree with the conclusions about preaching hate that were made by CLS, in that those words and philosophies have consequences.

I’m still shocked though that your post seems to imply that the muder of the homosexuals was a lesser crime than the burning of the Christian homes. The point of my post was that they were horrific events that, no matter who perpetrated them, we should unite against. You post seems to do a side-by-side to see which one was worse. I could be totally misreading your post and if I am I’m sorry, but that was the impression that I got from it.

11:44 AM  
Blogger Red S Tater said...

Wow... I demonstrated that BOTH the murdering of gays and the murdering of Christians were by radical Muslims.

How did you get that I was implying that one was worse than the other?
THAT is absurd and you are avoiding the point of who did the killing.

You know right from wrong... you just fail to see what's wrong with blaming Christians or conservatives for something that Muslims cheer each other for.

1:11 PM  
Blogger Dave said...

Sure Red, that's the ticket.

1:29 PM  
Blogger Red S Tater said...

Thank you, glad we got that cleared up... but if Christians start burning homes and killing gays with the support of the church (like Muslims), please by all means get back to me and we'll continue this discussion.

2:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

thank you Red! your logic and heart I support.

4:49 AM  

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